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+--- Forum: Bey Marketplace (https://worldbeyblade.org/Forum-Bey-Marketplace)
+--- Thread: eBay Topic (/Thread-eBay-Topic)
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RE: eBay Topic - th!nk - Mar. 23, 2013
(Mar. 23, 2013 4:30 AM)Insomniac. Wrote: I was mainly replying to Tech's post asking why people would price things higher than they're actually worth. If people will pay, why not. I wasn't relating it back to the Beyblade marketplace exactly where things are a bit different. And as you pointed out; the audience is always a big factor. So yeah I didn't think you were rude or anything but I don't know much about the Beyblade market to begin with, haha.
He already answered that: Ethics. Just because it's the way it works doesn't mean it should be - I sold the ZEO I got to 3-Dog at a price that just covered my relatively low costs (and the relatively high shipping costs as a result of Australia Post having next to no competition for non-bulk mailing) rather than trying to get more for it (and I figure I could've got $50-70 out of it, maybe more if I was lucky enough to find someone dumb enough) . However, even then, the inflation the plastics and HMS markets have seen these past few months in particular is above and beyond that - something only possible due to misinformed buyers and unethical sellers - opportunistic perhaps but frankly, buying something for ~$30 and pricing it at ten times that much is more than opportunistic in my books.
Though lately Y!JA is such a mess that it's not really the case so much any more, and they're buying stuff for more than it's worth with the idea that everyone is going to pay the prices the few crazed people with more money than sense are - which is a recipe for disaster.
This is the core issue here, and the one we seek to address - yes, these are collectibles but we've seen a massive increase in price with, if anything, a slight increase in supply for some of these items - it's just not right.
We're not trying to make these tops worthless, just trying to talk a little more sense into the market by providing a guide to what these things are worth - and that guide will still allow sellers to make plenty of profit - particularly by increasing the overall volume of sales, as these prices still allow profits to be made as long as sellers haven't overpaid for current stock - some might make a short term loss but they'll recoup that soon enough, and really, it's kinda their own fault for not realising what was going on with the market. I mean, do remember that 3-Dog himself is a seller, after all - and, not being from Japan, one with higher costs than a lot of those responsible.
I hope this helps explain to everyone that we are not trying to make these things worthless, just attempting to rectify aberrations in the market that only developed quite recently, and save kids from spending silly amounts of money on tops in a bubble that would eventually burst anyway - and much more violently than this. And, hopefully keep the actual games of plastics and HMS alive as a bonus, haha.
RE: eBay Topic - Starlight25 - Mar. 25, 2013
Beyblade lot contains 2 rares like Trygle2 and Dark Effigy MS, and theres a few more plastic & mfb beyblades. Shipping is to United States.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lot-Beyblade-Beyblades-Arena-Handle-Launchers-Parts-Cases-Storage-MUCH-MORE-/390565495848?pt=TV_Movie_Character_Toys_US&hash=item5aef848428
RE: eBay Topic - sporkseller - Mar. 25, 2013
There are valid points being made by people I'd normally disagree with. As a seller I'm constantly monitoring market prices and adjusting accordingly. When a particular item stops selling or when the Asia-based sellers drive prices too low, I ultimately "get out" of selling that item like I imagine a lot of non-Asia sellers would. Once that happens, prices will eventually rise to even higher levels than they reached before because buyers will perceive a decrease in supply, when the reality is its a decrease in suppliers and the healthy competition they must bring in order for the principles of economics to work.
In the current environment, I either break even or lose a little bit on at least half of what I sell. Certain items I try to stock just to bring some attention to my store. The bitter reality is that proxy fees, Japan domestic shipping, overseas shipping, eBay + Paypal fees, and packaging make most YJA purchases 'losers' no matter how cheap the (YJA) bid price might be. Rare Beys are the exception, but even they do not bring a price high enough to make up for all those other losses.
All that said, I'd really like to know how Th!nk, 3-Dog, and others on the price abatement drive actually arrive at the values for rarer Beyblades. Not being flippant - I genuinely want the criteria and details of your thought process. For example, how is Dragoon MSUV deemed to be appropriately priced at $300~$400 (or is it?). And if prices are more or less 'fixed', then how does one determine whom to sell to?
And since this is the eBay topic, I might as well mention that all my plastics are going live on eBay starting at 12:15 Eastern (GMT -5:00) today and releasing in 10~15 minute increments through 2pm (10 lots, none priced higher than $20 to start).
RE: eBay Topic - Ultra - Mar. 25, 2013
That's why I don't put my stuff on ebay unless I have to. Also I do alright but that's mainly because I sell just used plastics. It just takes a while to sell everything in the current climate even with cheap prices. However I would like to state that selling now is a lot harder than it was when I stopped a while ago. For a few reason i'm sure. What makes you think that price is appropriate for an MSUV? Our official more worthwhile price would be like $150 new but that's an unrealistic price I think. Don't even remember the last time I saw one outside of ebay anyway.
RE: eBay Topic - 3-Dog - Mar. 25, 2013
Munsoned, there is no healthy competition in beyblade selling because of tacit collusion in prices. When one seller jacks his price up, they all do. Your economic theory doesn't reflect reality because there is little to no price competition no matter how many suppliers. We can't compete on price as effectively as Japanese sellers can because we incur so many more costs, but they refuse to engage in price competition because they only think about profit margins rather than sales volume. Japanese sellers already have a monopoly on beyblades. All we can do is offer the fairest prices we can and educate buyers. Inflation is largely the responsibility of buyers because they fuel sellers by constantly buying their overpriced stuff.
On the other hand, some of the sellers engage in questionable business practises. As an example, Oki bids on literally every worthwhile beyblade lot on Y!JA but since beyblade sales are slowing down overall, it makes no sense because he's buying beyond his capability to sell.
My Dragoon V2 wouldn't sell on eBay for ages, even though it was around $60 cheaper than the closest competition at the time. Eventually they did sell, and as soon as they were taken off the market... someone bought japananimeotaku's NIB Dragoon V2 for $120 ($40 more than what I sold mine for). He also managed to sell his Dragoon MSUV for like $350 which is an absolute travesty of a price to pay. Yes, I saw the feedback on his wall and understand you bought it.
Ultra's price is a lot closer to reality. The last Dragoon MSUV on Y!JA went for around $130. HMS are tripled in price when sellers win them. Oki won 12 NIB Dragoon MS for 4000 yen once. That equals tree fiddy per Dragoon MS but he never differentiated his price from other sellers. Most sellers from Japan do not compete on price, even though their costs are much lower than ours.
At the end of the day, though, this is not a sustainable business operation. It's something very small on the side, so I do whatever I can to help the community. That's why I'm going to sell my next shipment at a loss.
RE: eBay Topic - Starlight25 - Mar. 25, 2013
Huge rare Beyblade lot with tool box, ends very soon less than 5 hours from now. Shipping is to United States only. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Beyblade-lot-/151014603875?pt=TV_Movie_Character_Toys_US&hash=item23292bfc63
Also don't you like bidders wtih less than 5 feedback and make a lot of spam bids hah.
RE: eBay Topic - Alice - Mar. 25, 2013
A last reminder! My Wolborg MS and Tornado Balance Stadium lots end in less than 24 hours. I ship worldwide, check them out:
Wolborg MS
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=281081056960
Tornado Balance Type S Stadium
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=281081054836
Message me on eBay with any questions. Good luck bidding!
RE: eBay Topic - sporkseller - Mar. 26, 2013
Like I said before, people overpay when they're close to completing a collection. I actually paid $266
for the MSUV using the best offer system. I've worked hard to reach a point where I may spend what I need to on things I want and I am not ashamed of either (the earning or the spending). Shining God turned into Dragoon MSUV and a small amount left over for string cheese. That is what I call win-win. Call me stupid if you like, but I have the money and I exercised an option to buy. Looks like I'm a bad guy on both ends of this argument. And forgive me if I don't bow to anyone's authority over my selling or buying habits. 'Capitalist Pig' is a mantle I'll carry unabashed.
I should also point out a week+ has passed and I still haven't seen any sellers coming out of the woodwork to gouge consumers on shining god. Disaster averted, end of story, put it to bed.
If anyone is interested in Death Gargoyle, Advance Averazer, or Samurai Changer, they are available on Amazon Japan. With fees and delivery it's about ¥9,600 for Gargoyle and Samurai; about ¥4,700 for Averazer.
We've all observed other toys become extremely collectible and expensive over the years. I would think people here would feel a sense of pride in knowing their passion has become legitimized by increasing collectibility. I think many people here screaming the loudest about price controls know deep down they've played a major part in driving prices up. A well organized, well informed, vocal community dedicated to a specific line of toys...could there BE a more effective way to increase interest in (and thereby demand) for the things were all here to gush about!? It's frustrating to want something that's out of reach, but working hard and saving up is never a bad lesson.
Besides, there are a multitude of very accessible low cost options - just like Star Wars or Hot Wheels - and it's a simple matter of individuals playing at the table where they can afford to pay the buy-in.
These are my opinions and I'm certainly entitled to them. At the same time I respect yours and agree to disagree. Our experiences shape us uniquely and yours have led you to your position (and obviously me to mine). It's healthy - equal and opposite is a fundamental principle in many sciences and pervasive in philosophy. The fundamental difference, however, is this: you're telling me how to tend MY fields...and I'm simply asking that my fields remain mine to tend as I please.
Meh, I guess I've had enough of this discussion. I love Beyblades enough to pay a lot for them, and you love them enough to want to make them available for everyone. Lets just coexist.
RE: eBay Topic - Ultra - Mar. 26, 2013
Those HMS prices are rediculous. $100 for NIB DEMS or Samurai Changer? I'd rather take the much cheaper ones on the site thanks. Even if no one else regrets the way they treated you I regret it even if it wasn't my fault.
RE: eBay Topic - ShinobuXD - Mar. 26, 2013
You say saving up can never hurt....
How are kids like me supposed to save up $350, just to buy one bey? Thats why I don't play HMS. I can't afford to pay $40 for each bey I buy. And remember, beyblade was meant for kids...
RE: eBay Topic - Cannon - Mar. 26, 2013
You could get an iPad mini with $350.
RE: eBay Topic - BeyderAndy - Mar. 26, 2013
Shinobu, your time will come.
When I was a kid like you I never have this toy, so expensive for me.
You know what I can't complain, I just get what I can afford - a made up wood spinning toy, and it was very fun to play with my friends. I remember the sharp nails use as tip hitting the spinning wood
.I think this is also the reason why the price for plastic beys skyrocketed, many people like me who use to love this toys are now working adults and have the money to enjoy this pleasure.
another advice Shinobu, invest what you have and buy low sell High. You will be surprise how much money you will make, and you can use this money to fuel your passion.
RE: eBay Topic - Cannon - Mar. 26, 2013
Did you learn nothing about what 3-Dog, th!nk, etc. said ? Seriously ..
I believe the reason prices are skyrocketing is because of people like you exist.
And, I believe he would rather save it up for something useful in life, rather than spend it on overpriced toys.
RE: eBay Topic - BeyderAndy - Mar. 26, 2013
And you should be thankful, without people like we are all still living in the dark ages.
People like me drives innovation, create something new. Once you control the price, imagine North Korea.
I don't care if I get another warning, but I will stand in my principle.
And let me educate you guys what is inflation, inflation is not how much people are willing to pay to a certain commodity, this called appreciation of that commodity.
Inflation is when the value of your money get less so you can't purchase the same item on the same amount you paid 10 years ago. This is cause when the government print so much money, or manipulate the currency.
To the consumer, inflation acts like appreciation of the particular commodity cause the price increases, while the truth of the matter is that his money is getting less value so he need more money to get the same commodity.
Hope this will help.
RE: eBay Topic - Ultra - Mar. 26, 2013
Um actually you're wrong. Inflation is the increase in price of any good or service. This consequently causes your money to be worth less. It's not the primary part. It's a an effect of it not the actual thing. Appreciation (what i'd rather call demand) is a reason for inflation.
RE: eBay Topic - BeyderAndy - Mar. 26, 2013
The overall general upward price movement of goods and services in an economy (often caused by a increase in the supply of money), usually as measured by the Consumer Price Index and the Producer Price Index. Over time, as the cost of goods and services increase, the value of a dollar is going to fall because a person won't be able to purchase as much with that dollar as he/she previously could.
Read more: http://www.investorwords.com/2452/inflation.html#ixzz2OfGiaLo4
Inflation is measured in terms of the value of the money not the value of the commodity.
To give more proper understanding on this. If you use gold as money, you will get more of the same commodity than what a 1 oz of gold dust can purchase 10 years ago. Cause Gold increase in value as inflation increase, while paper money decrease.
Hope this help. Their is nothing wrong when you admit that you are wrong.
RE: eBay Topic - Kai-V - Mar. 26, 2013
Plastic and HMS Beyblades are subject to way more than simple inflation over time, BeyderAndy. You really do not get it.
RE: eBay Topic - Starlight25 - Mar. 26, 2013
Beyblade G-revolution Engine Gear Launcher
http://www.amazon.com/Beyblade-Grevolution-Engine-Gear-Launcher/dp/B0007Z2K7O/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1364317004&sr=8-2&keywords=beyblade+engine+gear
Beyblade G-revolution Storage Case
http://www.amazon.com/Beyblade-Revolution-Storage-Case/dp/B009PF5GW8/ref=sr_1_25?ie=UTF8&qid=1364317126&sr=8-25&keywords=beyblade+g+revolution
RE: eBay Topic - BeyderAndy - Mar. 26, 2013
Every commodity is subject to inflation, thus include toys.
And inflation cause by the currency value not on the demand of the commodity.
To use the inflation cause the price of plastic beys increase base on how much a person willing to pay for it is wrong.
To use inflation in beyblade should sound like this. The cost of production and marketing of beyblade increase over time so the price of beys increase. And the increase of cost is attributed to the monetary system.
When the product increase in value due to demand this is called appreciation of the commodity, in contrast to the appreciation of currency.
RE: eBay Topic - Ultra - Mar. 26, 2013
(Mar. 26, 2013 5:42 PM)BeyderAndy Wrote: The overall general upward price movement of goods and services in an economy (often caused by a increase in the supply of money), usually as measured by the Consumer Price Index and the Producer Price Index. Over time, as the cost of goods and services increase, the value of a dollar is going to fall because a person won't be able to purchase as much with that dollar as he/she previously could.
Read more: http://www.investorwords.com/2452/inflation.html#ixzz2OfGiaLo4
Inflation is measured in terms of the value of the money not the value of the commodity.
To give more proper understanding on this. If you use gold as money, you will get more of the same commodity than what a 1 oz of gold dust can purchase 10 years ago. Cause Gold increase in value as inflation increase, while paper money decrease.
Hope this help. Their is nothing wrong when you admit that you are wrong.
I don't think what you said it true. Inflation is about the increase in terms of the commodity and with the decrease in the value of money a consequence (seriously did you read what I said?). Your metaphor just explains inflation again it doesn't prove anything. Also I love how you were arrogant enough to say the bit at the end when you're wrong. Oh I know from all the stuff you say that your understanding of economics isn't good.
RE: eBay Topic - BeyderAndy - Mar. 26, 2013
Hope you guys will not find me offensive with my post. I'm hear to present in what was a general knowledge.
I'm not here looking for a fight, but to straighten things out.
If you are going to post an idea contrary to mine, then I am oblige to reply and you can reply back to me, this is how it works. Their is no need to be hostile to each other.
Ultra, let me give you another example of inflation- Zimbabwe.
Hope this settles it.
RE: eBay Topic - Ultra - Mar. 26, 2013
Considering your attempts to damage prices and infect others with your views I doubt most who care about prices can view your post without feeling a large amount of frustration.
RE: eBay Topic - BeyderAndy - Mar. 26, 2013
http://www.economicshelp.org/blog/390/inflation/hyper-inflation-in-zimbabwe/
read it first before you reply back to me.
It's ironic how Mugabe blames the high price of goods on greedy businesses (oops, I heard this before
).while the actual cost is his over printing of the currency.
Ultra, don't you think I get frustrated too? This is use to be common knowledge, but now I need to put extra effort to explain this. But I don't get personal, I stick to the issue. This is called maturity.
When I was a kid, I think like a kid, if I don't like you, I will beat you or call my friends to beat you.
But now that I grow up, if I don't like you, that is fine, and you don't like me, that is fine. I'll find someone who will like me.
RE: eBay Topic - Ultra - Mar. 26, 2013
Yes but in our case greedy businesses are the actual problems. It isn't just rubbish someone just made up to protect their own carp. It's the truth. Also our markets are controlled completely by buyers so getting them to stop buying for such horrendous prices is the clear solution. It's not like they're selling something that you need like food. There are no consequences of waiting for a better price when the item you want is available at an overpriced amount, apart from having more money and having to wait longer. It just needs to be achieved and then we will be able to reach lower prices since the greedy sellers won't have a choice.
RE: eBay Topic - 3-Dog - Mar. 26, 2013
BeyAnder, when inflation occurs due to demand it is called 'demand-pull inflation'. Your link to Zimbabwe has absolutely nothing to do with beyblades. Zimbabwe's hyperinflation occurred due to excessive and reckless quantitative easing. You are either a troll or you are simply stupid. Do not mix economic theories that apply to a nation's gross domestic product to a tiny market for spinning tops. The same rules do not apply.
This market is dominated by japanese resellers. They are the ones raising their prices even though there is no demand. This is not how the free market mechanism is supposed to work. Tacit collusion, especially in price-fixing, is illegal in America and most other developed countries. It should be the buyers that determine the price of a product e.g. how much the majority of them are willing to pay. Price should not be determined by how much 1% of the market is willing to pay.
Japanese resellers are simply blinded by profit margins and, as I said earlier, they ignore the value of sales volume which is the real key to profit. You have no idea what you're talking about and your confidently held yet completely superficial understanding of economics is making me sick. Japanese resellers are NOT raising their prices due to an increase in demand from consumers, they are raising it because they want more profit regardless of demand. They are also raising it because they, with their own artificial selling prices, vastly increased the selling price of beyblades on Y!JA which is the source that most resellers, including myself, get their stock from. Demand for beyblades is high among resellers and low among consumers. Hilarious.
A japanese reseller will spend 40, 000 yen on beyblades that will only be sold for 20, 000 yen due to high price-demand elasticity i.e. demand is higher when prices are lower. This is market failure. Do you honestly not see a problem with this?
Everyone who has been referring to price levels of beyblade increasing have been correct in calling it inflation. There's no black and white term for what you can call it but inflation is simply defined as a general and sustained increase in price levels. It is still inflation when price rises due to one buyer with too much money paying $350 for a shining god ms. That will naturally make other sellers increase their prices too. If all other sellers increase their prices to $350 because one shining god ms sold for that much, that's price-fixing. That's very common in this market.
Don't condescend to others like you know economics and they don't. You have demonstrated, by far, the worst understanding of it that I've ever had the misfortune to see.