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+---- Thread: MFB Tiers list Last Updated 27/12/11 (/Thread-MFB-Tiers-list-Last-Updated-27-12-11)
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RE: MFB Tiers list - Ultra - Apr. 03, 2011
(Apr. 03, 2011 5:16 PM)Evan Wrote: Agreed 100%. CS has better stamina, almost the exact same defense, and when fresh can provide devastating attack. MF Libra GB145CS (aggressive) with siding shoot can KO most stamina types, will either deflect or KO attack types, and can outspin RS and RSF defense types.
Also, people have seen use on 230 with it..but I still fail to see how it helps any more than D or ES. It seems to have worse stamina than both of those, and a very similar height....tho the stamina problem may be because I have a VERY aggressive CS.
According to what i've read CS has very good use on 230 since the extra height means that unless it is against another 230 combo then the other combo won't be able to touch it's clear wheel which is how stamina works.
Anyway to me it seems like the reign of attack types is over. The reign of balance types has begun.
RE: MFB Tiers list - Dan - Apr. 03, 2011
Attack types are balancers, amirite? It's not over, MF Lightning LDrago CH120RF is still as beastly as ever, we just have some competitive Defense/Stamina hybrids now, it was bound to happen at some point.
RE: MFB Tiers list - Evan - Apr. 03, 2011
(Apr. 03, 2011 6:23 PM)Ultrablader Wrote:(Apr. 03, 2011 5:16 PM)Evan Wrote: Agreed 100%. CS has better stamina, almost the exact same defense, and when fresh can provide devastating attack. MF Libra GB145CS (aggressive) with siding shoot can KO most stamina types, will either deflect or KO attack types, and can outspin RS and RSF defense types.
Also, people have seen use on 230 with it..but I still fail to see how it helps any more than D or ES. It seems to have worse stamina than both of those, and a very similar height....tho the stamina problem may be because I have a VERY aggressive CS.
According to what i've read CS has very good use on 230 since the extra height means that unless it is against another 230 combo then the other combo won't be able to touch it's clear wheel which is how stamina works.
Anyway to me it seems like the reign of attack types is over. The reign of balance types has begun.
Hence my inclusion of D and ES. The combo basically goes Hell/Flame Aquario* 230 D/ES/CS. All add height over WD. I believe a worn CS, or a non-aggressive CS is a great choice; but it should be noted that a fresh, or aggressive CS is not a good choice in this combo.
(Apr. 03, 2011 6:45 PM)Dan Wrote: Attack types are balancers, amirite? It's not over, MF Lightning LDrago CH120RF is still as beastly as ever, we just have some competitive Defense/Stamina hybrids now, it was bound to happen at some point.
Balancers? How-so? I can see an RF based defense combo being classified as a balance because it uses both defensive and offensive qualities, but I could never see Lightning L-Drago Ch120RF as a balance. It has one use, and that is simply very heavy smash attack at different heights.
RE: MFB Tiers list - Dan - Apr. 03, 2011
Okay, what is with everyone thinking NOB CS' are awful? The rubber is usually over the tip, adding traction and whatnot and S is actually sharp. A worn one is more like a CB, and the rubber plays much less of a role, so there less defense. D(Why..?)/ES provide much less defense leaving 230 open for most attackers, I'm not even sure there is a significant stamina difference either.
RE: MFB Tiers list - Evan - Apr. 03, 2011
(Apr. 03, 2011 6:53 PM)Dan Wrote: Okay, what is with everyone thinking NOB CS' are awful? The rubber is usually over the tip, adding traction and whatnot and S is actually sharp. A worn one is more like a CB, and the rubber plays much less of a role, so there less defense. D(Why..?)/ES provide much less defense leaving 230 open for most attackers, I'm not even sure there is a significant stamina difference either.
Don't get me wrong about the defense, because it has a lot of it. It's the lack stamina that worries me.
RE: MFB Tiers list - Dan - Apr. 03, 2011
I didn't realize there was a drastic change in stamina when going from mint to worn, or any change at all. Needs to be looked into for sure.
(Apr. 03, 2011 6:47 PM)Evan Wrote: Balancers? How-so? I can see an RF based defense combo being classified as a balance because it uses both defensive and offensive qualities, but I could never see Lightning L-Drago Ch120RF as a balance. It has one use, and that is simply very heavy smash attack at different heights.This is how. Heavy? I don't think MF LLDCH120RF is heavy, but standards vary from person to person?
RE: MFB Tiers list - H8R - Apr. 03, 2011
D isnt much tall and with the types I say at the moment the meta game is quite balanced but basalt bull/aquario 230CS is dominating at the moment but pegasis 145RF can match up to baslat ______ 230CS at anytime cause of its height
so pegasis still has a lot of use and the meta game is running smoothly.CS is deserving of the spot that it has and maybe even higher than RSF probably but as of now ES has no use with 230 let alone D for defense
RE: MFB Tiers list - Poseidon - Apr. 03, 2011
night is a great destabliser i think it should be added , its better than wheels like ray and storm etc
RE: MFB Tiers list - Dan - Apr. 03, 2011
Probably best to back up that statement with evidence, or it won't be considered.
RE: MFB Tiers list - Guardian - Apr. 03, 2011
(Apr. 03, 2011 8:46 PM)wolborgMS Wrote: night is a great destabliser i think it should be added , its better than wheels like ray and storm etc
don't you have to show your tests
before posting something like that
RE: MFB Tiers list - Ultra - Apr. 03, 2011
Yeah dude. No one has even tested it for defence yet so I think we should do that before anything else although if you could test both that would be great.
RE: MFB Tiers list - Evan - Apr. 03, 2011
(Apr. 03, 2011 10:35 PM)Ultrablader Wrote: Yeah dude. No one has even tested it for defence yet so I think we should do that before anything else although if you could test both that would be great.
*Hasn't been tested as a standard defense type. I did tests on 100 a while back, and it did decently.
Now for some GB145 tests.
MF-H Night Bull GB145CS vs MF Lightning L-Drago CH120RF
MF-H Night Bull GB145RSF vs MF Lightning L-Drago CH120RF
TT Attack
Midnight Always Shot First
CS Match
L-Drago: 8 KOs
Night: 1 KO, 1 OS
RSF Match
L-Drago: 6 KOs
Night: 4 OSs
Meh. It does better on low tracks.
RE: MFB Tiers list - Ultra - Apr. 03, 2011
um what's that? I thought you were doing Night not midnight. Night shows a lot more potential.
RE: MFB Tiers list - Evan - Apr. 04, 2011
(Apr. 03, 2011 11:35 PM)Ultrablader Wrote: um what's that? I thought you were doing Night not midnight. Night shows a lot more potential.
The one I tested was hasbro's version of Virgo. I always get Midnight and Night confused.
RE: MFB Tiers list - Ultra - Apr. 04, 2011
Can you test it against a wheel which isn't so amazing for attack please? eg pegasis
RE: MFB Tiers list - th!nk - Apr. 04, 2011
Just a note about CS!
Sonokong CS: New: Aggressive, Worn: Less Aggressive. The rubber of a SK CS is larger, and overhangs the plastic more, resulting in erratic movement. It therefore wears before the plastic, becoming less aggressive
Takara-Tomy CS: New: Very Little Movement. Worn: More Aggressive. TT use less rubber, and it doesn't overhang the sharp part of the tip, so the plastic sharp tip makes contact with the floor, resulting in very little movement. The rubber only comes into play when it is hit towards the thunder ridge, or up a slope, in which case it grips, adding defense. However, the plastic wears quickly, resulting in a coated Ball-like tip, resulting in more aggressive movement. As it wears more, more rubber comes into contact with the floor, and it ends up quite aggressive.
I suspect everyone saying "NEW CS'S ARE AGGRO" is either taking that from SK CS's, or is copying what htey've heard from people with SK CS's.
Dan, I suspect, is more used to TT CS's, and this would be what he refers to as "fresh". I generally agree, as 3 of my 4 cs's are TT, and have followed his description, while my SK CS was really erratic out of the box.
I guess a note should be made that a NEW Takara Tomy CS has the best stamina (Logically) and has excellent defence (may need testing against a worn SK CS, but I'd suspect it would have the optimum defence, too). A worn SK CS tends to roam more than a New TT CS, and therefore is closer to the edge, which can be disadvantageous against attack. That said, a worn in SK CS is more like a Coat Ball, which could be better for defence, though IMO it's too aggressive, especially on 230, where you really want to be sticking to the centre, given your high Centre of Gravity (OOH PHYSICS).
RE: MFB Tiers list - Ultra - Apr. 04, 2011
I can support this since when I got my TT Ray Unicorno the CS didn't really move at all until used for a while.
RE: MFB Tiers list - th!nk - Apr. 04, 2011
The difference in CS has been mentioned by others. I'm actually not so sure that SK and TT use the same factory any more, there are noticeable differences in builds and certain other characteristics. Dunno if the "same factory different name" thing still the accepted idea though.
I do wonder which one Hasbro will use, I'm hoping TT, as it is IMO superior (and would do better in hasbro stadiums), but yeah.
RE: MFB Tiers list - FlamePegasis123 - Apr. 04, 2011
Hello guys,i'm FlamePegasis123 and i'm new here so i need a combo for my Libra
If You Know Just Leave a comment that has my user nam thanks.
RE: MFB Tiers list - rock L-drago - Apr. 04, 2011
(Apr. 04, 2011 12:08 PM)FlamePegasis123 Wrote: Hello guys,i'm FlamePegasis123 and i'm new here so i need a combo for my Libra
If You Know Just Leave a comment that has my user nam thanks.
I don't have authrity here, but if you don't want to get in trouble post in the ask a question get an answer thread.
RE: MFB Tiers list - H8R - Apr. 04, 2011
i do agree as the PLASTIC gets more aggressive BUT the rubber is very aggressive when used with sliding shoot out of the box i suggest as I will be getting my third ray unicorno soon i will not use the CS with sliding shoot much so i can see if it prevents wearing down
RE: MFB Tiers list - Wolverine Mode - Apr. 04, 2011
(Apr. 04, 2011 12:08 PM)FlamePegasis123 Wrote: Hello guys,i'm FlamePegasis123 and i'm new here so i need a combo for my Libra
If You Know Just Leave a comment that has my user nam thanks.
Post this in the ''Build me a combo'' thread.
RE: MFB Tiers list - th!nk - Apr. 04, 2011
With TT Tips, it' can be rather hard to get the angle right and still pull off a proper sliding shoot. Anyway, CS isn't often used for offense, IMO MF probably outclasses it for that combination of Attack and Stamina, so ideally you'd want the defense/stamina properties of a fresh TT CS.
Oh, yeah, the plastic point of TT CS's wears EXTREMELY fast. Maybe 20-30 battles or so and it's dull and starts moving. This only gets worse the closer the rubber gets to the floor.
RE: MFB Tiers list - Janstarblast - Apr. 04, 2011
CS isn't quite gud at defense..... Its quite difficult to KO of the stadium though....Attack capabilities are above average, but like all rubber tips, its bad at stamina.... Let the rubber wear out, and then CS would be an awesome Attack tip!
RE: MFB Tiers list - Wolverine Mode - Apr. 04, 2011
(Apr. 04, 2011 2:23 PM)janpegasus Wrote: CS sucks when it comes to defense and stamina.... its better that it wears out, becomes a kinda RF, which can be put to gud use....
You want to say is CS is bad at defense? Of course not. It has a lot of grip to the stadium because of the rubber. And RF has very low stamina which would OS mostly so CS is better choice.